2021-10-10 15:33:39 (edited by defender 2021-10-10 17:58:09)

Admins: this is a request for a poll to be set up ASAP, ideally on a more secure site like straw Poll with it's anti duplicate vote protections, asking the users if we still want to allow political (and or) religious discussion on this forum.


We all know that in the last few months, political topics have reached a  fever pitch here, and that some truly awful things have been said on these topics by all sides involved.
And before that, we had a rash of religion topics which also got quite nasty at times, though much less so over all.
Allot of these topics seem to essentially duplicate each other, leading to unproductive discussions which only go around in circles, with most being unwilling to change their minds in any significant way, wasting everyone's time and increasing negativity pointlessly.
Many well known forums have policies about politics and religion, so this is not an out of the blue idea.  Nor does it need to be a permanent decision if we feel like things are calming down enough to allow it again in the future.


On one hand, I (and I feel many others as well) never really wanted to know the political or religious affiliation of my fellow gamers in the first place, nor is it relevant to this forum's stated purpose. It's also become quite clear to me that we as a whole can't handle discussions like this most of the time without turning them into flame wars that often only serve to make people more angry and miserable and create unnecessary extra work for the mods, spawning grudges between users that can sometimes spread into unrelated topics.
It's easy enough to discuss these things on a myriad of other platforms, so I don't see any good reason for them to invade this space as well.


On the other hand, this site has become a hub of discussion for blind computer users who also happen to be interested in gaming, and politics and religion are an ever present part of most of our lives whether we like it or not, as they can effect much about our experience on this Earth.
The off topic room exists for a reason, and you might say that as long as divisive conversations aren't directly leaking into other parts of the forum, we may as well not stifle freedom, let people be people and talk about what matters to them and effects all of us.


I'd like to have this question answered one way or another, sooner rather than later, because it's becoming a major issue, and I don't think I'm alone in that feeling.

2021-10-10 15:50:41

Defender,
Thumbs up for that, bro. Allthough I don't post often here anymore, I still read through new topics, and it's clear something needs to be done about those discussions. If this poll is to be held, I'd for sure vote to ban those, only because of there eventual downfall to useless arguing/insulting.

2021-10-10 16:20:17

@1, I also realiced this "problem" even though I'm only more active for a few months now. And even if the majority would vote to keep this topics allowed, it would simply be great to actually be clear about that once and for all I think.

2021-10-10 16:23:20

Thumbs up, Defender. I'd also vote to ban all those topics.

2021-10-10 17:07:24

I gave you a thumbs up as well, Defender. We'd be a lot better off without these discussions.

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2021-10-10 17:22:30 (edited by Jaseoffire 2021-10-10 17:23:29)

Actually, perhaps as a good compromise, we could make a room dedicated to these topics. That way, those who want to engage can, and those who don't don't have to. This is usually the other solution for forums who want to keep politics contained. It tends to work well enough. Let's be honest here, politics governs a lot of how we interact with the world. Doubly so do to our blind nature and the implication that has for some groups. Like it or not, our lives are bathed in politics and engineering. It sucks, but there it is. That being said, to be honest, can anyone honestly say that if we didn't fight over politics, we'd not fight over something else? Need I remind everyone that someone pulled a warning hat trick over wether or not you should cut your hair over a drain..........Shall we ban discussions of plumbing? A bit of an apples to oranges, I suppose. Then again, that was really the only plumbing discussion I've seen here, and it ended like that...

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2021-10-10 17:31:52

Generally, I am not in favor of banning things, but it might be worth putting it to the forum. I have engaged in political discussions in the past, and it got personal. I said some things I shouldn't have, and it went down hill from there. After that happened I remembered the old adage: "Agree to disagree." If everyone kept that in mind, we might be better off.

I stay out of political discussions now, and my experience is much nicer. I have realized I can still be nice to people even if I don't agree with their political views.

2021-10-10 18:00:59 (edited by defender 2021-10-10 18:02:37)

@Jaseoffire
You make a fair point, however many grudges between users start in politics/religion topics and spill into others.  I'm not saying that's 100% what happened with the famous hair topic, but I believe it was a contributing factor.
Moving it to another room wouldn't erase that issue.
And yes, we will find other things to fight about.  However at least this reduces the immediate, largest cause of strife.  The other things, we can tackle when they come up, but this is a well known and continuing problem area for us.

2021-10-10 18:14:28

Of course we are going to fight about something else.
People will  fight about screen readers, operating systems, literally anything opposing because that's just how Internet works.
However, the scale  of  those fights is  nowhere near as large.
There are a bunch of screen reader discussions that turned out as really constructive and helpful for  people involved, for example.
Finally, yes, politics is a worldwide issue affecting our lives, but games are precisely made as a distraction for what's happening in the real world, and a gaming forum a place where people can generally have fun.
Of course, this doesn't mean we should ever go as far as not discuss  anything but games, that's why off topic room  exists, but if  people clearly can't get along on a topic and never will and  nothing productive is happening for anyone, what's the point  in repeating the cycle over and over?

2021-10-10 18:21:08

I would also support the ban of political topics, however I don't know if anything will be done about this due to the fact that previous attempts to bring this very matter to the admin team never resulted in anything

2021-10-10 18:38:38

No, Making another room would make no difference because I'm sure many people just click the active topics button and obviously, You know what happens next.

2021-10-10 18:43:48

@9 Though, I also submit that even games are not free from politics. Let's take the nature of gaming accessibility. There are some, I have no doubt, who would prefer to settle the issue with legislation. I don't think we are there scientifically, but not everyone would agree with my assessment. Regardless, it will come to legislation eventually, and when it does, it's going to be a political storm. That being said, I suppose we could ban non-game related politics. Seems more difficult to moderate, but I suppose it is an option.

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2021-10-10 19:06:50

@12 that will of course include only  non gaming related politics. I can't think of a politic example now, but I'll do religion instead.
In Manamon, you have several religious concepts, both in terms of mithical creatures and in terms of gods in general. If, one day, religion is banned, that doesn't mean you can't talk about those aspects of Manamon  storyline.
Just like with any other rules, intent is simply taken into account. As long as you don't use it as an excuse to talk about real world issues, or worse, try to force down your beliefs, everything should be fine.
Similarly, I don't think legislation should be an issue either. It could be a calm discussion, but even if it's not, treat it like any other. Warn for personal  attacks and such. There will no doubt be much less politics in gaming areas than in others.

2021-10-10 19:12:31

I've brought this topic to the team, so we're here and will be watching the thread.

My personal opinion is that this site has grown into a unique community of people, with a very diverse pool of opinions and experiences. I feel that politics are integrally important to this population when you consider the innate disadvantages that come with being blind in 2021.
When you say ban politics you are also saying ban topics venturing into advocacy territory and game legislation (thanks #12). Taken in moderation, there are many positives to growing and spreading political awareness. I don't think we can simply let all that go because a couple people can't play nice. So the absolute farthest I would personally be OK with taking this is a temporary limit on extreme two-party politics in the short term.  #ChangeMyMind

The gist of what I'm saying here is that I'm not opposed to having this conversation, but I would also like to explore all avenues like tagging or separation before we stifle an entire subject.

2021-10-10 19:22:28

@cartertemm
Thank you for bringing it to the team.
@Jaseoffire
I considered the same issue, but wasn't sure how to express it.
I think specifying (off topic) politics/religion is important as well.

2021-10-10 19:56:11

No, I don't want either of those things here, but especially politics. And anyone who may feel that it's their right or duty to educate the young undersocialized overly sheltered blind population about politics really could go about it on another platform if they so choose.

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2021-10-10 20:10:31 (edited by defender 2021-10-10 20:11:22)

@GCW
Agreed, organizations like the NFB and WBU exist for a reason.  If it something which applies to us directly as a group, than I can see making individual exceptions, but that would be up to the mods.

2021-10-10 20:32:34

I would also vote for a ban. I feel like it has really gone to far lately.

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2021-10-10 21:23:15

I am all for the banning of these topics as well. We have a fine community of folks here, some who have been personally attacked and possibly even driven off by those attacks when it comes to discussions of politics primarily. Creating another room  wouldn't make a difference either as an earlier poster had said. This is primarily a gaming and tech-focused community, and ought to remain as such. What a resource it can be for people who might have some gaming questions or tech-related issues they need help with. It would be such a shame to see that ruined due to differences of political, or even religious, opinions. Normally, I too am not for banning things, but when those topics can't be handled responsibly, then I'm afraid there's no room for them. If they cause that much division, then they're not worth having or being permitted.

2021-10-10 22:05:41 (edited by Stealthy 2021-10-10 22:06:02)

I'm also in favour of this.
It has been rare where a political topic hasn't resulted in somebody being attacked.
I have nothing against anybody's political views, but I think it'd be better for them to remain in private.

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2021-10-10 22:54:42

I'm probably in the minority here, but I'm with carter on this one. Banning something that's all around us won't do any good. And what, if someone happens to say something even mildly political they get a warning? I don't like that. Sure political topics have resulted in flaming, but that's honestly part of being on the internet. It's not a fun one, but banning the topic that causes it the most won't fix it.

2021-10-10 23:10:51

They wouldn't have to get a warning, the topic could just be closed. Warnings might only be put in play if someone continued to flout the rule.

It's all around us. Very true, thus, it would be good to have a place to escape it. The internet is vast. There's no shortage of places to go to discuss such things.

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2021-10-10 23:53:56

Both 21 and 22 make some good points. Banning it wouldn't essentially kill the problem, and I think if topics like that were just flat-out closed people might get to the point where they understand that topics like that aren't really welcomed. Good things to consider for sure.

2021-10-11 00:51:41 (edited by Ethin 2021-10-11 00:55:57)

I'm in the minority of not banning these discussions. When you don't have people claiming that others are sub-human because of their political beliefs, or people flying off the handle and actually trying to have a rational discussion, these topics can be quite informative and enlightening. If people resort to calling others sub-human, retards, idiots, etc., and resort to personally attacking somebody just because they have a counter-belief to another individual, that speaks a lot more about the person in question than it does to this "problem" in the community, and people who resort to that -- just to try to win an argument or debate -- should be dealt with appropriately. If we ban topics like this, we're then going to have to make a bunch of exceptions, which doesn't really make the rule all that enforceable.
It would be nice if we had a topic member lockout feature -- if a member gets too antagonistic towards somebody else over a political topic (or, really, any subject) and starts personally attacking that other person for no other reason than pride, arrogance, or the pure desire to somehow show them that they're better than that other person, and they keep doing it after being told to stop by the admins, they could be forcibly removed from the discussion and not allowed to even open the topic by the moderation staff. But that's probably not happening on this forum.

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2021-10-11 01:43:14

Informative, no. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen someone be like, no you know what, you're right, and change their stance.

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