2021-10-11 01:53:33

@24 theoretically, you are  completely right.
However, did that  ever happen on  here in practice?

2021-10-11 01:56:33

Informative does not necessarily require someone to change there stance. To be honest, information can help you empathize with a position without needing to change to that position. Also, it's just fun to learn more about other points of view. Makes a person more well rounded. I may not agree with Jayde, for example, but my political interactions with him have helped me to further understand how he views the world. And other ways of looking at things, as well. I don't think him correct in most circumstances, but I understand him, and his arguments better. We can come to an understanding if we didn't treat each other like filth.

I have a website now.
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C++: The object-oriented programming language of a pagan deity" -- The Red Book
"There, but for the grace of God go I"

2021-10-11 02:34:17

@25: You're incorrect, and you're the one I've seen it happen to. In my topic about Elijah McClain, you totally changed your stance from, this guy did nothing wrong most likely to, OK holy shit you're actually right, this was fucked up.

2021-10-11 02:48:28

@26, yes, I have. The topic about the coronavirus, though it sometimes got heated and got very close to crossing the line, was nevertheless informative about the variety of POVs and what people believe in, at least to me. I could name others. Point is, discussions about politics can in fact be informative, and it doesn't seem right to ban them outright because a few people can't control themselves.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2021-10-11 03:14:42

@Ethin
So rarely do these topics result in more good than harm though, and while yes, it does tend to be the same few users most of the time so they should get most of the punishment, it's clear to me that the admins are unable to keep up with that many users across multiple topics.
Hence, nipping the problem in the bud by taking away the places they tend to do the most harm makes sense to me.  Political and religious topics bring all sorts of assholes out of the woodwork that would normally stay pretty quiet.

2021-10-11 03:39:04

Of course, when we get switched over to discourse, maybe they could ban those users from ever talking in political topics? I'm sure they'd be fine with it. After all, they did say they'd be happy never talking politics on the forum again, right?

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2021-10-11 03:45:02

SO the overwhelming majority of people who use this forum are someway left of center. There are very few conservatives, in other words. I'm probably the loudest and most vocal, but even if I fucked off and never said another word about politics, someone would still come along and say something that doesn't jive with the collective's weltanschauung.

When that happens, there's still gonna be a shit storm, because a lot of people will jump on that. In other words, me shutting up will help, but it won't eliminate the issue.

And it's not just here by any stretch, but you say something, and the other side jumps on it like you chummed the water then threw your line in. who's right and who's wrong start to mean very little when that happens. repubs are just as guilty as democrats when it comes to taking the bait. Whatever the reason this happens doesn't really matter for the purposes of this forum, because it happens and it's not going to change overnight.

SO you get petty and draconian and if someone says #trump24, you warn them, but why? What's that gonna do? Then Mr. #trump24's going to look out for any instance where someone doesn't get warned for using a leftist buzz word or slogan and start something over it.

The solution is to ban politics. It's better for everyone, because in time, we'll start to see each other as people again rather than which side they're on.

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2021-10-11 04:42:33

@32, you got any stats for that majority claim? Just curious because that seems like a pretty big assumption.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
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2021-10-11 05:47:46 (edited by Zarvox 2021-10-11 05:58:58)

No one else has picked up on this yet.
Those who were in favor of banning the discussion of stolen and illegal material on this site are against banning political and religious discussions from here.
And those who were against banning the discussion of stolen and illegal material on this site are in favor of banning political and religious discussions from here.
There is a direct correlation between these 2 events that clearly indicates we are completely divided into 2 sides permanently. And the conclusion is that we're always screwed no matter the situation. So I propose we have 2 forums or 2 community groups. This way both communities can live on without taring the entire place in half.
This isn't sarcasm, I'm dead serious. That direct correlation proves that there are 2 mindsets that can't agree on anything, there is no crossover.
Edit this is speaking about the majority here, of course there are people that either don't care what happens, or are for/against both conflicts. Personally I'm in the it doesn't matter to me category. I'd be in both groups.
Edit2 both sides have good points in each conflict,, but neither outweighs the other.  And if you want to make a comment about how I prefer peace and dream of the happily ever after with no violence or conflicts, I don't care. But MLK took the same approach, and not for an internet forum, for his own rights. Not just his own rights, but the rights of every colored citizen in the United States. So you would also be calling him a pussy.

2021-10-11 05:53:15

Zarvox wrote:

So I propose we have 2 forums or 2 community groups. This way both communities can live on without taring the entire place in half.

Ah, I think I understand the concept of irony now.

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2021-10-11 06:01:12

@35 Lol well it would be in half but you know what I mean. It would be better than this.

2021-10-11 08:48:32

My vote is no because people should know better than to click on those topics if they don't think they can handle them. I don't accept the self-aware but also very lazy argument that people here can somehow not be expected to do that that I've been given before.

2021-10-11 12:31:29

@Lucas1
I agree with you, but the other problem is that things which start in those topics can spill into others either directly or indirectly, making the forum more hostile in general.
Also, just because you don't click on them doesn't mean you can't say you'd rather not have them their on your gaming forum period.

2021-10-11 13:29:25

@30 I just came in to say that the mods have already said Discourse is out of the question.
As for political topics? I don't think you can compare the recent political topics to the corona virus one. The last few have clearly been created with the intent to provoke people and weren't designed with any productive agenda behind them. Seriously. All of the creaters of the most controversial topics, Jayde, KJCisco, and MatthewSmithYT later came out in one form or another and said they made it cuz they liked the discourse. The last few ones in my view falls under a special category of shit stirring. If something like this were to come into effect, I think intent should be considered. Someone asking if the Corona Virus was made in a lab theory has been proven versus someone making a topic saying satire, CCP official states their long term goal is global domination should be handled differently. Obviously the second one is attempting to throw shit where as the 1st one may genuinely be unaware of the facts.

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2021-10-11 13:37:33 (edited by defender 2021-10-11 13:38:26)

@JayJay
Agreed, intent is important yes, and that's where cautions come in.  As long as the topic gets closed before the shit starts flying, I wouldn't want unaware people to be punished for creating it either, unless it was (like you said) clearly meant for shit stirring.

2021-10-11 14:16:31

Like I said, I don't see the point of this. People should be able to control themselves. If they can't and political discussions makes them more hostile in other topics, that isn't the fault of the forum. The forum is not responsible for the behavior of individuals, nor is it required to baby people. If they can't comply with the rules and have shown (repeatedly) that they can't control themselves, they can get out, either willingly or by force. The *only* time I think the admins should step in is if someone creates topics for shit-stirring; that's a whole different kettle of fish, and that's definitely not kosher.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2021-10-11 14:22:22

@33 Why do you need stats for something that's clearly observable.

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2021-10-11 14:53:40

@42, because I think your making a very big assumption. Not to mention I was just curious anyway. But yes, in general the rest of the world -- or the majority of it, minus a few countries I'm sure we've all heard of -- are left-leaning, which makes sense. Though I'm also sure there are countries that are right-wingers.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2021-10-11 15:19:59 (edited by George_Gaylord 2021-10-11 15:20:49)

ethin wrote:

The forum is not responsible for the behavior of individuals,

That argument doesn't hold water because then we can apply that same reasoning and say that we should allow clones and personal attacks

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2021-10-11 16:04:01

Right, but not everything requires a scientific experiment. I'm not planning to write a white paper on the division of political affiliation among forum members. If I were, then I would have to employ proper research procedures, starting with a questionnaire.

I don't see what harm it does to say that most of the forum are left leaning. OK, so there are probably conservatives who don't want to be involved in this, so they stay quiet. So you're left with vocal democrats, vocal conservatives, quiet democrats, quiet conservatives, and people who don't care one way or the other.

In my day to day encounters, I find that most people tend to display a leftward bent.

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2021-10-11 16:34:30 (edited by Ethin 2021-10-11 16:44:13)

@44, it does hold water. The forum is not in fact responsible for how someone behaves. If someone clones a game, the forum cannot be held responsible for that action. The forum is only responsible for eliminating undesirable elements and illegal/destructive behavior like clones or personal attacks or other rule violations. That's not taking responsibility for how someone behaves, its enforcing civility. That person can still behave that way off-forum.
The only time the forum can be held responsible for somebody's behavior is if the forum encourages things like violence, suicide, causes depression, etc., like in the case of Instigram. In Instigrams case, Facebook knows that it causes depression in teenagers, and it is known to cause such problems, and therefore the platform can be held responsible for causing them or making them worse by deliberately showing content to the user that causes them. But in the forums case, the forum does not encourage cracks, clones, personal attacks, etc.; the rules in fact explicitly forbid such things and the admins do what they can to enforce those rules, regardless of what the user base thinks "should" be allowed. The admins do not encourage flaming, behavior that causes depression in individuals, suicide, illegal activity, etc.; it discourages it. As such, if somebody does commit a crime, clone or crack a game, steel assets or code, attack someone personally, start a flame war, kill themselves, etc., you cannot then say "well it was audiogames.nets fault and so I can sue them for that or otherwise tell everybody that the forum caused that person to do that" because you can't actually prove that that was the case.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2021-10-11 16:53:28

It's Instagram fyi

2021-10-11 20:12:48

@45, That might be a bias issue on your part. The thing is that if you view the world in left and right a good  chunk of your time, you'll develop that as your experience. The thing might be that most people might be left of you, but that does not necessarily mean a left bend. To be honest, research methods like this are a good way to get some perspective on things.

I have a website now.
"C: God's Programming Language
C++: The object-oriented programming language of a pagan deity" -- The Red Book
"There, but for the grace of God go I"

2021-10-11 20:37:10

Nah, it's not.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2021-10-11 21:47:03

For what it's worth, I am 100% against this, and will say so in any meetings that the team has about this as well. My reasons are simple:

1. Punish the offensive users and/or highlight their behaviour, rather than just blanket-banning an entire topic where most of the threads and people can maintain at least a modicum of decency most of the time
2. Users may feel free to ignore any topic about which they are uninterested; the rest of the forum should not be potentially deprived of important things to talk about just because a few bad apples can't govern their reactions to things and ideologies which upset them
3. Users are still free to report any bad behaviour, and it is clear that some of these political or religious threads do enter some deep water; either you trust the staff team to crack down on actual bad behaviour on the way toward eventually removing the problem if it persists, or you don't
4. I've said this before, but pretty much any open community that suddenly decides to take a subject like this off the table for the aforestated reasons is, in my view at least, getting the whole thing wrong. You don't teach a wayward child to share by removing their toys, and you don't teach a community to better handle important, loaded subject matter by stopping them from discussing it

Also, for my money's worth:
1. Most people on this forum are either center, center-left or center-right; they'd probably fall between 35% left and 35% right. Leftists like me and right-wingers like, say, GCW or Destranis would be the exception, I believe, not the rule, so it would be inappropriate for me to feel that this community was unfriendly toward leftists just because I am one of its more vocal leftist presences
2. The media has a big rightward slant for the most part; most of the time, when folks on the right are upset about being censored or cut off, they're either making it up or they're forgetting the nine hundred and something times they cut a guest's mic because he dared to criticize Trump on live TV or something
3. Censorship is something I'm genuinely not in favour of until or unless it means literally stopping misinformation. You want to talk about how Joe Biden is costing you more at the gas pumps? You're wrong, but okay, have on. That's not really hurting anybody. You want to express a way to drink bleach to cure Covid? Yeah, that's a big no from me. I can fundamentally disagree with a ton of the political stuff I see, both here and elsewhere, but unless we're talking straight-up lying and/or white supremacist nonsense, then it does have a right to exist.

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https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1