2022-01-06 01:33:54

@25 yep, that's the repository.
Don't 100 percent quote me on that, but I believe play protect now scans your APK installs as well. It warned me on multiple occasions that something  is potentially malicious when trying  to install apps related to rooting, for example, hence why I have this impression.

2022-01-06 01:38:18

play protect always did that, at least when I used android.

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2022-01-06 01:59:59

Yeah, from what I could see it does, but not by default.
If you go into Play protect settings and turn on improve detection, then it seems to send unknown apps for scanning.
Source: https://support.google.com/googleplay/a … 2853?hl=en
in particular, the heading send unknown apps to  Google.

2022-01-06 02:10:35

@26 Yes that is correct, it warned me when I installed Lucky Patcher, didn't receive a warning for Commentary.
I heard from someone a while ago that Commentary can also be downloaded from Google Play, but I couldn't find it and installed it from the Github link.

2022-01-06 02:13:43

from analising the apk, one sees straight away that a big part of csr is actually native code, written in c++ if I'm not mistaken, I'm not only talking about the lua libraries either. I DK how to direct the investigation further, as I don't have the tools to disassemble and attempt to decompile arm code, plus I don't have much knowledge of the native android API's.
So yeah, here's another thing where language matters, especially in phones that are not really powerful enough to run garbage collected java at a fast enough speed so that a speed sensitive process like a screenreader doesn't lag as hell.
This is yet again one of those things where it's good for 90% of apps, but not for anything speed-critical like fast pased games or, yes, screenreaders. This is also why I chose to write odilia in something that's not interpreted or garbage collected, as well as write it in such a way I take every speed improvement opportunity that arrises. Another thing that causes csr to be fast as hell may be usage of faster and more efficient algorithms and better memory management since it goes lower than java, but if we can't see the code, that's just speculation anyway.
Speed aside though, it offers so many functions and features for which you would probably need many separate apps, including the clipboard manager, nice to copy text from any controll on the screen at all, plus it copyes selectively. Then, we have things that read subtitles, monitor parts of an application and tell us when they changed, translations, I heard there is an assistant, ocr and object recognition on items with focus(perhaps an icon inside an app), csr camera whatever that is, and many other good utilities like those. I haven't even touched on community made tools and extensions, as csr is scriptable enough it allows you to perform clicks on items and such with simple lua scripts, really powerful as hell. Because of that however, there are extenssions that enable features which should have been hidden by the paywall, I don't know any specifics, I know they are in the extension store though, so go digg if you want. Honestly though, if you want those features, just buy the product, the dev deserves it.
About payment, I also don't like how I would have to actually wait for an answer from customer service or whatever, the key should be generated and sent instantly without any kind of human intervention, hope he'll add it in some future release. I mean, it's kinda a winn winn situation for both the dev and the customer, extra work and frustration would be eliminated from the equation. Plus, bonus packages and stuff like that where you could buy something and it comes with a commentary key could also be easily implemented in that case, it would be just a matter of ingenuity and time till something like that could exist. However, other legal issues may be at play here, but then how does huawei manage to not be bound by those restrictions I DK...though I think we aren't getting the full picture regarding this issue.

2022-01-06 02:57:52 (edited by Ethin 2022-01-06 02:58:53)

I'd disassemble the app myself to see how it works if I had a good Aarch64 disassembler with symbol resolution and I was well-versed in ARM assembly language. But I'm not very good at it; I haven't studied it all that deeply (I've been more focused on RISC-V) and so I wouldn't really understand the code all that well.
It would definitely be nice if the app was open source though. Perhaps open source with a commercial edition that's closed? That seems to be a common business model that appears to work well (e.g. Gitlab I believe works this way).

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
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2022-01-06 03:27:27 (edited by TheGreatCarver 2022-04-24 22:00:49)

TalkBack is perfectly usable, and it's use doesn't involve sideloading an app, sending money via PayPal and waiting for manual activation, or rooting my device. Plus, I don't have to worry about the screen reader's security, and I don't have to teach myself how to use a new screen reader without a well-written manual. Also, I don't appreciate this community's insistence that NVDA is better than JAWS in every conceivable way, because it simply isn't. NVDA and JAWS are both tools which empower users, however one is not better than the other as both have their strengths and weaknesses.

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from The Book of Mozilla, 6:27

2022-01-06 03:40:20

@30, I suspect the talkback delay is entirely artificial, though. I heard a long time ago that it helped prevent angular gestures from breaking, or at least that was the idea, but of course commentary proves that such a thing isn't actually necessary and never was.
Also, 1 benefit to CSR that nobody has mentioned is that it enables the use of multi finger gestures on any device capable of running Android 11 or newer. Google artificially restricts this with talkback because of their deal with Samsung.

2022-01-06 04:13:54

@32, do I see some anti-Chinese bias here?

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2022-01-06 05:00:37

32, Please do your research before making claims like needing to root your device. It don't look good. Sideloading is fair, paypal is fair, manually waiting is fair. Requiring root? That's, simply put, not accurate. My phone is not rooted, so can personally say straight up that's not the case.

As for something else, I tried disabling vibration, I tried disabling sounds, tried disabling everything imaginable with talkback, the delay never got better. I did also consider the lag being intentional, but voiceover, while you can't be as fast as with commentary, and arguably, commentary has better explore by touch support, the story is nowhere near as bad as with talkback. I compare talkback to narrator on windows 10/11 at this point. It does the job, but not particularly pleasant to use it.

2022-01-06 05:13:28

@32 Perfect example of why misinformation needs to be avoided.
For god's sake, who ever said that you need to root your device? You get one additional feature if you  do and if you even grant access, but that is never required to use the product.
Who ever said that you need to send money and wait for activation before you can even use the product? The free version is more than  usable, it never expires and it allows you to try out about 70 percent of the screen reader.
I mean, if you don't want to even give it a try, it's absolutely your choice being that it's your device in the firstplace, but quit screaming no without informing yourself properly.
As for sideloading, as soon as you get all restrictions lifted from China related to Google play, I'm sure the developer will be eternally grateful.

2022-01-06 08:34:51

36. Out of curiosity, what's that single feature that requires root? My old phone is rooted and have all permissions granted, but I don't see any difference?

2022-01-06 09:18:22

Hey. I'm all for open source, but not with screen readers. Let me explane. Not counting NVDA that's actually getting some kind of love, screen readers like TB and Orca aren't really getting much contribution aside from some people. For me, I think it's better to have screen readers that are not open source, but are open to source. If that made any kind of sence to you all. I personally, always wanted to watch chinese shows on netflix, and have the subtitles read out. And you know what, I got it! But not from Talkback, but from a screenreader that is apparently the under dog of accessibility, while the top SR is slowley starting to move along. BGT lover told me, that Talkback is open source, but the people don't accept pull requests but you can fork it and update it. Now that would be fine, but accessibility in screenreaders should be on par with everything, and not because you have a specific phone from a specific manufacturer.

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BQHTXTVRWGMFSI3BI3ZVQ4TGEOGNJJO64
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2022-01-06 09:22:35

I should probably mention that as of today, I have yet to see a community fork of Talkback that fixes and updates Talkback for more features for accessibility in apps and uces.

My chiptune archive is https://chiparchive.com/files/.
And the new sync key is
BQHTXTVRWGMFSI3BI3ZVQ4TGEOGNJJO64
Twitter is https://twitter.com/thechiptunearc1?lang=en

2022-01-06 09:52:48

The only major complain I have is the payment. Paypal and manual activation are just iffy for me, maybe I'm simply overcautious about trusting random people on the internet to follow through as there's no guarantee of getting back the money I send. And if I remember right, customizing multifinger gestures requires you to pay for the full version, which is just bonkers to me since multifinger gestures are allowed in the free version if I believe, you just can't customize them.

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2022-01-06 13:06:49

yeah, I'm not paying for this unless they get a refond policy

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2022-01-06 13:28:22

@38, I don't quite understand the open to source thing, perhaps it's like open to user feedback?
about your point, I don't think it makes much difference if a program is open source or not in the bigger picture of things, though obviously the best thing would be that as many programs become open source as possible. There is not a significant difference, not in the development workflow, distribution, or feedback reporting by the users. So then, it would only be logical to assume that, even if tb was closed source, it won't have faired better than its open source self from now, google doesn't care that much about it honestly.
@39, the situation is kinda complicated. I don't understand how would that be possible, but you could go in legal trubble if you use even open source code with a specific license. For example, an android rom maker, perhaps lineage, wanted to add tb and make the accessibility shortcut work with it, as in manufacturer provided android distributions. What happened though, is that they said they can't do it because of legal reasons or some license issues, they didn't go in much detail though as far as I remember. I don't know how could that be honestly, however someone told me once that facebook, even though it has some tools open sourced, could sue you if you used their code or something. Those memories are vague, but it's kinda concerning tbh.
However, there is indeed a community maintained version of talkback, called talkback fos. I think it could begin to gain more features, now that it has been degoogled and all that, perhaps we can point rom devs at this one?
See, here's another thing about this. While csr requires you to do that complex setup to configure gestures, permissions, tts settings and whatnot, not even this version of talkback requires much of a setup at all, just turn it on in accessibility settings or via adb and start blasting. Now people can't say that this is googles screenreader and it's made to integrate with android since it has been baked in the system, since this thing is so degoogled now it could be kinda another screenreader entirely...maybe? I mean, why couldn't csr start with a default config and only ask for permissions when required, starting in a very basic and restricted mode, but enough to be able to do the setup wizard with csr in stead of needing to use tb? Again, the setup is not really hard to do, one gets used to it farely quickly, plus one can backup ones setup in the cloud as to do much less next time you have to update. Still though, does anyone know why the dev didn't go with that rout of start in a restricted mode, with a default configuration and asking for permissions only when needed?

2022-01-06 14:03:34 (edited by UltraLeetJ 2022-01-06 14:14:40)

I want to be convinced.. what is so new? so slick? so innovative? differences between paid versus free? currently I open apps and honestly there is really no delay imposed with talkback...
also if I try and switch, I think I could be missing the braille input.. a lot

if anyone can point to an official users guide or something, I think it would really help because I have found outdated stuff it seems. Or just a bunch of random really long youtube tutorials... which takes the seriousness away from the thing altogether.
Ironically for your pleasure I have just sent a direct link to the latest release to my saved messages chat on telegram, so I can try it later during the day.

A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops. On my desk, I have a work station…

2022-01-06 14:13:13

hi.
the problem is I can not use Commentary
I try to use it, but I could not
can you give me any Written explanations how I can link it with smart voice?
because I need move to nvda Lol

2022-01-06 15:15:26

I totally disagree
what a pole smile

2022-01-06 16:19:29

Regarding root, you can feel free to disregard that. I just rooted my device and apparently  that feature is now removed for some reason.
A year ago or so when I tried it, it was possible to just open Commentary, and if your device was rooted it would take care of everything for you, that being disable Talkback and enable itself. So now, it's practically the same, rooted or non rooted.
Regarding setup wizard, actually it was done to satisfy users, but what you should understand is that it is impossible to satisfy everyone.
Back when it was just starting out, Commentary had no setup wizard. You'd enable it, you would be able to grant basic permissions, and that's it. Whether you configure anything or not is now your own choice.
However, frequent questions started coming up, such as how to invert swiping gestures, how to turn off usage hints, where is this, where is that, so the developer decided to implement a setup wizard allowing to configure and explain some basics. Who knows, in the future it might be an interactive tutorial just like what you get when turning Talkback on for the first time. A screen reader only requires a dedicated developer/s and time for progress to  be seen.
See, people being afraid to send money / purchase is absolutely legitimate, and I have no problem with that. As I said in another topic, I didn't buy the premium version until recently, using the free one for about half a year. Until then, I never heard about anyone getting scammed / not getting what they paid for, so it was an easy decision to make.
Nevertheless, as I said, if you aren't comfortable, that's perfectly understandable.

However, one thing that should be pointed out, customising multi finger gestures is not a premium feature.
The only requirement is Android 11 or above, honestly not sure if 12 is needed, Google made a mess when giving accessibility services this feature.
To customise them, do the following:
Go to CSR's settings, operation settings, at the bottom find other settings.
Make sure that use multy finger gestures is checked.
Now, back on the operation settings screen, go to gesture scheme and pick custom. Right next to that, you should now have a custom gesture scheme settings option, which will allow you to customize every gesture.
Near the bottom should be multy finger gestures. For example, double tap with 2 fingers. Activate that and you can assign any function you wish to it. I just tried on a device where I never activated premium and I was able to reassign double tap with 2 fingers, I assume every other gesture works too.
Hope that helps.

2022-01-06 17:56:14

OK so I gave it a quick spin in a traffic jam not too long ago and well...
yes, its smoother than talkback in a few aspects... but since my phone is kinda high end, the difference was also kinda slight.
I like the sounds ... the fact you can customize those is always nice. Also, using two synths for different things on the device is cool. Unfortunately, multilingual support is awful or I never got to find settings for it, or don't understand how it is supposed to work.
So, for example,  You use your phone in french, but most people that chat with you do so in English. How can I get these chats or anything else to read? with talkback you can just change your language on the fly, instantaneously with just a gesture or two, but here... I never found options or a way to do so.

Gestures are confusing.The rather limited help I could gather from the program itself said totally contradictory things and then later on I found that invert gestures was enabled. There is also not really a list of default assignments which makes things more confusing.
I still have not found a way to open the notifications with one gesture so if there is one I would love to know.
I still want to know about the other super innovative stuff because for instance, the image recognition I do with eye d pro, the recognition of signs, text, signals whatever I do with google lookout and it just works like a charm. Not sure what else I could be missing

A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops. On my desk, I have a work station…

2022-01-06 19:14:47

I gave it a shot. I'm interested in learning a bit more about it, but are there any text gesture lists anywhere? Not a manual/tutorial, just a list of standard gestures?

I know there are some in Commentary itself, but they're giant walls of text that it'd be easier to review...if I knew the gestures to review them, which is kind of what I'm trying to do. smile Reading a list on my desktop while I tried them out on my phone would be helpful...but this is all so ungoogleable. Or, at least, I'm having terrible luck.

2022-01-06 19:41:21

I'm a Commentary user since 2 or so years. As you didn't know I'm the spanish translator for the screen reader, however university is taking my time to translate it or eaven update it completely, but I'm trying my best.

73 Wj3u

2022-01-06 19:53:56 (edited by Nikola 2022-01-06 20:20:23)

Hi everyone,
since this is a common issue, here is a list of default gestures.
Angle gestures:
Swipe up, then down in a single motion, go to the bottom of the screen,
swipe down, then up in a single motion, go to the top of the screen,
swipe left, then right in a single motion, switch to next app opened,
swipe right, then left in a single motion, switch to previous app opened,
swipe up, then right, actions menu (not to be confused with custom actions on a control, this is a menu with various Commentary functions and quick settings), mostly related to editing,
swipe down, then right, functions menu ( another Commentary menu), this one will also contain custom actions if a control supports them, though a gesture can also be assigned directly for that,
Swipe up, then left in a single motion, open extensions menu (Commentary extensions such as screen curtain can be activated here ),
Swipe down, then left in a single motion (Voice assistant of Commentary),
Swipe right, then up in a single motion, automatic reading (reads the entire screen until the end),
Swipe left, then up in a single motion, open notifications bar,
Swipe right, then down, open list browsing mode (a feature designed for browsing larger lists searching them and scrolling easier, similar to item chooser in Voiceover,
Swipe left, then down in a single motion, enter character by character browsing mode. This mode allows swiping up and down to navigate character by character, left and right to navigate word by word, as well as other gestures to copy. I'll have to look those up and post in a moment.
To exit this mode, perform the same gesture again.

Finally, I will give a very useful tip for beginners. First of all, inverted gestures. This doesn't mean  that every gesture is inverted, and if I say swipe right then down, in the inverted mode you swipe down then right. Rather, inverted gestures only inverts navigation related gestures, two of them to be specific.
By default, in CSR, you swipe up and down to navigate, and left and right to perform what is called a left shortcut and a right shortcut, more on these soon. If you enable inverted gestures, these will be inverted, so left and right swipes will navigate, while up and down swipes will perform the left shortcut and the right shortcut.
Only these and nothing else is inverted.
Now, left and rright shortcut, what are those?
By default, Commentary allows you to perform common actions with what are called left and right shortcuts. Right shortcut, will, for example answer a call, while the left shortcut will decline it.
Similarly, right shortcut often says  ok in confirmation dialogs while the left one activates cancel.
However, there is another way to use  swipes up and down, or left and right in inverted mode, and this is something that many people might enjoy.
If you open Commentary's settings, then go to operation settings, then navigation settings, and check  the checkbox called allow moving by element type on the web, you have just enabled something very similar to what Talkback offers. Enable the checkbox next to that, called allow moving by element type in the standard Android interface, and you have enabled it system wide. What does this do?
With both of them checked, when swiping up and down in the inverted mode, rather than left and right shortcuts, these gestures will move by different available navigation options such as characters, words, lines, paragraphs, and even  other functions such as TTS rate, and so on. On the web, of course this will be various HTML elements, and of course, to adjust any of these / navigate by the selected unit, use swipes left and right.
Now, if we remain on this same screen, there is yet another useful checkbox here. use the alternative navigation mode. What does this do?
Well, here, rather than using swipes up and down to navigate by different element tipes, we instead use a gesture similar to Talkback, that is swipe up and down in a single motion to choose next element type, and swipe down then up in a single motion to choose a previous one, and instead we use only a single swipe up or down to navigate by the selected element.
This is in my opinion much more useful because now, we can, for example, choose headings, swipe down to navigate by headings and still retain swiping right to navigate by every element.
Finally, to conclude this very long post, each option here (both web elements and standard Android elements navigation ) can be customised, so you can choose exactly what will appear when you cycle between these navigation types.
Note however that when you go in and try to customise, everything is unchecked by default, which might lead you to believe that nothing is available, but that's not true. When everything is unchecked, you will have all possible options available. This will be quite crowded and in my opinion unnecessary, so make sure to check only the checkboxes for the ones you want, and then only they will appear in the list.
I hope this is useful and helpful. I will soon also write down the default assignments for multy finger gestures if noone does, and also answer the point about multilingual usage / some unique features that Talkback does not have.
Good luck and I hope you enjoy Commentary!