2022-02-02 07:11:52

Muhammad Hajjar, don't worry, I'm not trying to argue with you. You got extremely unlucky, but I'm glad you seem to be recovering.
The leftist saying you're looking for is, "your freedoms end where mine begin". So for this situation, it means that you may be free not to get vaccinated, but if your freedom to be unvaccinated has a direct potential impact on my health, then it's technically limiting my freedom to expect a healthy environment within reasonable means.
The reality is simple. Personal freedoms are not limitless and never have been. Someone who is trying to tell you that your freedoms are going to be sacrificed probably has a lot else they'd like to sell you where it comes to fear and paralysis.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

2022-02-02 16:26:03

@Jayde thank you so much. I'm much better now (almost recovered), just a slight nasal congestion that's all. Yes, I too wasn't arguing with you at all, I know where you come from on the matter and I totally agree with you, what I'm trying to say is: if someone is a liberal or leftist advocate and they refuse to take the vaccine backing that up with that they're free, in principle they're right imo and I totally respect and support that, but they as well believe that their freedom ends when it causes harm or limits other people's freedom in return, which apparently is the case vaccination-wise. That's why I think that vaccination will protect me and over all an entire nation in the first place. How effective is it or the booster as it is was what I was discussing in my original post.

Kind regards!

Add me on battle.net and let's have fun, region is Europe, my BattleTag is: Hajjar#21470
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2022-02-02 18:54:30

my doctor said they will at least keep you out of the hospital if you get the vaccine. so I chose to get it because I can't afford to become hospitalized. I got 3 covid shots so far.

2022-02-02 18:55:16

I had little to no side effects but I drank lots of water on the day I got the vaccines.

2022-02-02 19:18:09

My first vaccine shot gave me a sore arm and resulted in a little tiredness the day after. Second shot made me feel like I was coming down with the flu for about twenty-four hours, and resulted in a sore arm for a couple of days. That's literally it. For me, it's an absolute no-brainer of a choice. A couple of days of mild discomfort so that I can be safer and so that others around me can also be safer? Yes please.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

2022-02-02 21:07:09

My shots didn't cause any side effects other than a sore arm.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2022-02-02 21:42:45

i'm looking to get my favorite shot so far, but i do not care about the left side there, because these guys are, you know, i don't know one thing they say we want freedom, the other day, do not accept the freedom, so i do not get it i have 2 shots and they received the virus, luckily, it is a slow, i mean, it didn't affect me that much, so i guess it works for most people

2022-02-02 23:19:50

I've got three shots so far. The first 2 were pfizer and the booster Moderna. The side effects were minor. In all of the cases I had a sore arm for a couple of days. After the second shot I had a mild fever, general tiredness and swollen and a bit painful lymph nodes under my armpit. The booster resulted in just the latter symptom. These could be easily solved by the good old Ibuprofen.

2022-02-02 23:27:23 (edited by Muhammad Hajjar 2022-02-02 23:28:36)

My shots didn't give me but sore arm for few days. The second shot however gave me tiredness the day after for some hours. The sore arm is obviously the most common discomfortable side effect., but that'd eventually pay off.

Kind regards!

Add me on battle.net and let's have fun, region is Europe, my BattleTag is: Hajjar#21470
By reading my post, you agree to my terms and conditions :P

2022-02-03 00:19:10

everything is a visor or something, the 2 shots i took

2022-02-03 00:50:46

I've had 2 shots so far, both of them Pfizer. The first one gave me a sore arm and a little bit of tiredness. The second one also gave me a sore arm, together with a serious headache, fever like symptoms and mild pains in various parts of my body for the following 2 days or so. I should be getting my third some time in March, so we'll see how that one goes. Definitely unpleasant, but I'll take it over the real thing any day. Particularly now my mum has COVID and I might actually be at risk of infection.

2022-02-03 03:50:23

I find it really encouraging that most people who are able seem to be choosing to get the shot instead of choosing not to. I know it's unpleasant, and believe me, I don't want this to carry on any longer than the next person. It's been two years, give or take a little. I'm sick of it. But it's not done with us, and we're still getting a handle on things. I feel like the time for straight-up fear should be over for most of us (if most of us get it, we're gonna live, and will probably be fine), but caution is still warranted.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

2022-02-03 05:08:18

I got the shot last year so will probably head in sometime in the future to get my booster.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2022-02-03 11:35:13

It doesn't matter that you're taking it. But don't force others to do so. You are nobody to force us into an experiment. Don't spit in others' face if they aren't vaccinated. We are the same people, the only difference is that our eyes are open.
I'm also vaccinated, anyway. The reason why I got it was different though. I'm going to Poland in the near future and I must be vaccinated if I'd like to go. That was my only motivation, and I was scared pretty much since neither the doctors, nor the government doesn't take any responsibility if the vaccine damages you in any way.

2022-02-03 13:28:58

Can anyone explain this "protecting others" bit please? It makes no sense to me. If you get your vaccine, then you're 100% protected from hospitalisation from what you guys are saying. So even if you do catch it, you won't get ill anyways, no?

So if you walk too close to Johnny Unvaccinated, and he gives it you, you won't even notice. Ergo, how does one person's choice affect anyone other than themselves?

I keep hearing how it protects other people, but whenever I dare to ask how, I just get shouted at.

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I have code on GitHub

2022-02-03 13:30:58

Also, @44, for the record, I don't know why anyone would want financial compensation for that kind of thing. I don't care if my doctor is vaccinated, HIV positive, brushed their teeth in the past 6 weeks, so long as they can do their job, their personal life is their own business.

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I have code on GitHub

2022-02-03 14:51:20

Infections are not just individual two-way streets.

If Johnny is sick and also unvaccinated, and you're vaccinated, and he comes near you, there is still a chance, albeit a smaller one, that you get sick in the first place. The likelihood is that you won't have to go to the hospital, though very rare breakthrough cases still can and do happen.
Now, as to how you having your shot protects others? Look at it like this. Once you get sick, you essentially become a much watered-down Johnny. If you encounter someone and happen to pass them a dose, it will be much weaker than the one Johnny hit you with. Again, there is no flat guarantee, but the numbers are even less favourable for serious infection. So me getting my vaccination means not only do I have less of a chance of getting sick, but it also means that if the worst does happen, I will be less of a risk to those around me. The unvaccinated around me will get more benefit from this than the vaccinated do, of course.

Now, as for the financial compensation thing I brought up? Interestingly, the Hippocratic oath that health professionals must swear states, in part, "First, do no harm", and such has been the basis for countless lawsuits over the years. When a doctor essentially makes a mistake, or makes a sub-optimal choice (personal or otherwise) that does you direct harm, they can face discipline and can be held legally accountable for it, just as any other profession can but with an even higher burden of proof since medical personnel are considered an essential service. Whether or not a doctor wears the right sort of scrubs, or brushes their teeth regularly, is of no consequence to treatment. But whether or not a medical worker is protected against common illnesses can and does have a measurable impact on my care. It's not any different from folks in retirement residences having to be tested for TB or having to get the flu shot; doing these things is considered reasonable, since residents who are compromised could get sick and maybe die if infected. Now obviously, even with precautions it's possible for something bad to happen, and I think most people understand that. However, there's a valid concern of whether or not the person in charge of someone's medical safety took all reasonable precautions to ensure it. Vaccinations are, in most cases, considered reasonable precautions, because as outlined above, they do help, they do work to mitigate the risk of serious illness without jeopardizing in a large way the health of the person getting vaccinated. As I've said before, and will undoubtedly say again, numbers just don't lie.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

2022-02-03 17:17:57

@67
I really appreciate you answering my question without kicking off. You're actually the first person to try and do so without falling back on "Because the bloke on the TV told me so".

I still don't get how someone unvaccinated beats through this almost 100% effective vaccine though? I'm sorry, either I'm understanding it wrong, or it just doesn't make sense. Are you saying that the vaccinated somehow only carry a weaker version? What is with that?

Happy to be directed to medical journals or whatever by the way; I don't require a dumbed down explanation (or maybe I do and that's the problem haha).

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I have code on GitHub

2022-02-03 18:29:57

unfortunate fact, somewhat did not recover from the virus, they thought he did, so, they gave him the vaccine, that just made the virus through strong to come back, and then he passed away about 2 weeks later, or maybe 2 days later, i'm not sure i forgot

2022-02-03 18:31:15

also, these things that they still throw you nose and tell you, sit in side of your brain, or something, they are not 100 percent accurate, you know, my mother scanned twice, one is negative, the other one is positive, luckily, all of us are okay, she is okay, too

2022-02-03 18:33:58

I am going to try a slightly simplified explanation here, not because I think you're stupid (I absolutely do not think this) but because it may help explain how this works. If it feels like I'm stating the obvious at any point, I apologize; I'm trying to walk you (and anyone else reading this) through the steps one at a time.

When you're sick with a virus, you shed live copies of that virus. For some infections, it comes out in your poop or your blood or whatever. For others, like Covid, it comes out in respiratory droplets (mostly when you cough, sneeze or spit). Speaking, singing and shouting can also spread these particles, however.
Some viruses are pretty tough to catch, either because they die quickly or because they have to follow a certain route to get into your body. Some viruses, however, often those which spread via respiratory droplets, can sometimes be really, really easy to catch.
Generally speaking, the sicker you are, the heavier your symptoms are, and the more you will shed viral particles that can infect other people. If you have no symptoms, you can still shed viral particles though; my understanding is that asymptomatic people generally tend to shed less, but they also might be less careful as well, leading to more transmission by accident.
When you get sick with something, your body tries to fight it off. In doing so, it creates antibodies, which are like a specialized task force intent on protecting you from a specific infection.
The problem with Covid-19 is that until two years ago or thereabouts, we've never really seen a disease like this, so we don't have Covid antibodies floating around in our system the way we do for other, more common viruses. Humans are really used to things like cold and flu, because even though both diseases can mutate, neither seems to do so in a way that freaks out our immune system. Our immune systems are sort of always on guard for cold and flu, so when it detects them it fights them off. The bigger the dose we receive, the harder it is to fight off.
However, Covid doesn't enjoy this status. Our body takes a bit longer to recognize that the thing that's suddenly invading it is, in fact, hostile. The body will still trigger this immune response on its own (this is why some unvaccinated people can get better without any help), but the slower response time, and the fairly unique qualities of Covid-19, make this a bit dangerous.
What the vaccine does is essentially give our bodies a memo that tells it what to expect, giving it an early warning system. It doesn't infect us with live, crippled virus, the way some vaccines do. Instead, it tells our immune system to be on guard for specific sorts of proteins which signal a Covid-19 infection, which speeds up and strengthens the immune response.
As time passes, humankind in general will become more used to Covid-19, and herd immunity (i.e., the point where most people have antibodies floating around, either from vaccines or from at least one prior infection) will occur. The reason that we needed vaccines in the first place was because the mortality rate of Covid-19, while not super scary, was still considerably higher than other comparable viruses floating around. If we had left this alone and just sort of let it run its natural course, millions more would have died.
It's also important to point out here that viruses tend to mutate most readily the longer they exist while under attack. A weak immune response (i.e., a person gets sick and is taking awhile to get well) offers the best chance of viral mutation, and here again we come back to vaccinated people. They usually have a stronger immune response, so they give the virus a shorter window in which it can mutate. Mutations occur all the time, and most of them are completely harmless and pointless. However, the reason we keep seeing new variants is because this virus is still infecting enough people for enough time that eventually it was going to throw a mutation that was an improvement (from the virus's point of view) over its last iteration.

So let's summarize.

1. When you get sick with a virus, you shed that virus for awhile. You can make other people sick. This is how viruses flourish in the first place. The less protected you are (either through natural immunity or through vaccination of some kind), the more viral particles you'll shed. Wearing a mask blocks some of these particles from spreading to the environment around you, but it's not perfect. Same goes for physical distancing.
2. If you have antibodies in your system, you will generally fight the virus better, which means you'll get better more quickly and will shed fewer particles for others to potentially catch. It also means that you're providing the virus a shorter window in which it might mutate into something more dangerous.
3. The Covid-19 vaccine teaches our immune system to create some antibodies specific to this virus without actually giving us the virus itself. These are antibodies we would not have had without catching the virus otherwise. Unlike cold and flu, they aren't already in your body. Your body has to recognize a threat before it knows how to deal with it.
4. Since the virus itself is far more likely to kill a person than the vaccine will, and since both catching Covid and getting vaccinated provide similar protection, it's generally believed in most reputable scientific circles that getting vaccinated is the safer option.
5. Being vaccinated not only means that your own immune system is better prepared to protect you, it also means that you, as a carrier, are less likely to pass infective viral particles to other people.

All that being said, I do want to point out that Omicron is a mutation that has managed to be considerably more contagious than other forms. If vaccine efficacy was at, say, 93-95% for Delta and other earlier variants, it's closer to 75-80% for Omicron. that's the nature of viruses like this though, unfortunately. Scientists are hopeful that Omicron is an endpoint, since the virus actually doesn't do best if it kills you quickly or horribly. It does best by being communicable, and that's where Omicron is at (higher transmission, lower symptoms overall).

Do you still have questions? I hope I've explained this to your satisfaction.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

2022-02-03 21:59:35 (edited by Ethin 2022-02-03 22:05:21)

@71, heard immunity isn't going to happen. At least, not the way you describe, according to my research anyway. There are over a hundred different coronaviruses out there, most of which (thank god) haven't been mutated into something that humans can get. So even if heard immunity from COVID-19 does happen, we still won't be immune to the remaining 140-something of them. According to my research, scientists are attempting to find enough commonalities with COVID-19 and the other coronaviruses out there to develop a universal vaccine that combats them all, because I significantly doubt that humanity will survive if we just wait and let all those other coronaviruses come for us. As an aside, if the response to COVID-19 from the general populus is anything to go by, its going to be utterly terrifying when a virus mutates just right to trick our immune systems into thinking its not a threat. I really, really hope to god that that never happens.
@64, its interesting that you claim that COVID-19 is some kind of "experiment". Or that the vaccines are. They really aren't. There have been over 30 million doses distributed worldwide. If they're an experiment, that's one hell of one, and its the most successful experiment in history. Its reduced the probability of death to less than 2 percent. That is what those vaccines have done. Not natural immunity. If we solely relied on natural immunity, I assure you that the probability of death would be significantly higher, especially given the amount of times the virus has mutated in attempts to get past the vaccines we've already created. The fact that the vaccines still protect against the mutations even though every mutation is trying to prevent that is incredible in itself. And, sorry, but your freedom of choice ends when your choices harm others. Remember that.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2022-02-03 22:08:28

The Pfizar and Moderna vaccines are not actually a long-term solution. Ideally, what we're after is the sort of vaccine that the army is working on at Walter Reid. Something that's customizable and can fight off a lot of coronaviruses at once. The current vaccines are a stopgap; they work, they're far better than hopes and prayers, but they're not perfect and they don't do as well when newer variants pop up.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

2022-02-03 22:22:16 (edited by Destranis 2022-02-03 22:26:53)

If they aren't perfect, if none of them actualy provides the things you were preaching before, why do you force people to take it then? Why don't you accept that others also have the right to choose if they want to take it or not? Just because a few posts earlier, most of you were preaching about the fact that we need as many shots as possible and all these bullshit stuff, but now you actualy say they aren't absolutely reliable. We all have free will and a brain to think with, you don't need to decide if we want to die due to the side effects or the fact that every immune system react differently if it gets a shot. I was all right after I got it, only my left hand was pretty unusable for like two and a half days. But some people die.
I'd like to have a question though. What do you all think about vaccinating little children?
No need to express my opinion, when I heard this for the first time I was shocked and stared at my screen in disgust, and immediately closed the article I was reading because it's the most pathetic way to get more money.

2022-02-03 22:43:23

Okay so:

1. We never said they don't work. What we said is that they aren't 100.0% effective. Huge, huge difference. I'm not sure if your refusal to grasp this fairly basic concept is a language barrier thing or a legitimate desire to continue an argument that you've already lost. I suspect the latter, but hey, I'll give a little benefit of the doubt. If you need to hear it again, here it is: vaccines help, but they aren't perfect, and they don't need to be perfect in order to be recommended.

2. We vaccinate children all the time for all kinds of stuff. We give them live but crippled viruses so their bodies can fight them off. In the vast majority of cases, nothing bad happens. Occasionally, serious complications arise. This is happening less frequently these days, but used to be a bigger problem (more due to how vaccines were stored and packaged than because of their effectiveness). The popular vaccines (Moderna, Pfizar, J&J to a lesser extent) don't represent a higher risk to children, but a child dose is smaller than that given to an adult. Other vaccines have different interactions, and that's probably why their use on children isn't recommended. You're trying to turn this into some sort of "think of the children!" style of moral outrage. It's a worn-out cry from the conservative playbook, and it just doesn't apply here. Unless you secretly have credentials as an epidemiologist that we all don't know about, and you're about to make the big reveal? No? Thought not.

3. Nobody is actually forced to get a vaccine anywhere. There is no "get vaccinated or die" mandates. Nobody is going to prison because they refuse to get a shot. As has been standard operating procedure for decades, certain companies have specific requirements on whether or not you need to be vaccinated if you work for them. Nobody raised a finger about most of these except the truly anti-vax crowd until tfg and some of his other criminal buddies told them their freedoms were being taken away. Really, politicians made it into a political issue in order to manufacture a culture of unnecessary fear by which to control you. Again, these weren't progressive or even liberal politicians I'm talking about. And it happened outside of America as well. Nothing scares the populace as much as telling them that a nonexistent right is being taken away by their political enemies, after all.

Now, do you want to keep flailing, or do you want to get down to real discussion, Destranis? You're losing the debate either way, I'm afraid, if you maintain the positions that you hold, but I am absolutely uninterested in playing nice if you continue to lie or misrepresent facts. This would be an excellent time to backpedal and save a little face.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1