2022-02-01 21:06:45

So I know, from the NVDA list, that some people use these. I even know what they do, e.g. keeping personal mail and such on one desktop, work stuff on another, or say, streaming video stuff on one desktop, something else on another.

What I'm wondering is, what is it for, and how do you set it up? I don't mean so much how to use virtual desktops, I have a bit of a handle on that, you switch with ctrl-win-left/right arrow. If you open a program on a desktop, that's where it is and if you switch to another desktop it's not visible, at least for a screen reader. I know you can rename desktops, and they're preserved when you restart Windows.

I guess I still don't know why they're useful. They don't seem to isolate things like Twitter, at least running TWBlue, so I wonder if they'd isolate things like Discord messages or Skype. One thing I always thought would be interesting, and I know you can't do this, is if you could make desktops with their own sets of stuff, e.g. put all of your games on a games desktop, and that's where they live. But suppose I create an audio desktop. So that's the desktop I'm going to switch to when I record or whatever. If I did that, I'd probably want Twitter and Discord and all to be turned off, and I'd have to do that myself anyway, so why not just turn everything off and run on the main desktop?

I guess beyond an organizational thing, like cutting down on switching windows, I don't really see a benefit. I don't use a lot of open windows, e.g. when I'm done here I'm going to close Firefox, unless I want to go look at something else. So I understand kind of how people use them, let's say email and stuff on one, video streaming on another. I just don't get what it's doing. Like, why are you doing that over checking email, closing email when you're done, and then doing video streaming?

I ask because they've always intrigued me, they seem like an interesting idea. I've just never been able to figure out what the point is. If I have a bunch of stuff open, let's say email and a browser and video streaming and a reader app on one desktop, sure I have to alt-tab between those windows. So let's say I move the browser and the email. Now I have to hit ctrl-win-left/right to move to that desktop ,and then use alt-tab to get to whichever window I want. So it's not like it's cutting down on the amount of work I have to do to switch between things or something.

But like I said, I'm intrigued. I keep looking at them periodically. Now that I know some screen reader users are actually using them, I want to know what they're bringing to your life, so to speak. What are the benefits? I feel like I'm missing something because I don't quite get it, and that always bothers me. Whether I end up using them or not, I'd love to understand what they're doing for those of you who use them, particularly as a screen reader user. Even if it is really just a different way to organize things and having say, ten windows open on one desktop instead of five on two desktops, maybe there's something about it that makes your workflow easier or something.

Maybe it's easier to say, leave Discord and Skype open on one desktop, instead of doing what I do and closing Discord with shift-alt-F4 when I'm done, and minimizing to the desktop and typing dis to get to it and open it again if a new message comes in. Hit me with the possibilities! I want to understand the magic of virtual desktops!

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2022-02-01 21:17:48

I'm pretty sure it is just an organizational thing for windows so that you don't have to alt+tab as much theoretically. I might be wrong though, and I too am curious if people see benefits to them with screenreaders.

2022-02-01 21:29:05

@1 same

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2022-02-01 21:53:21

I see lots of benefits.  I have 10+ windows open regularly: 2 vscode, spotify, a couple browsers, slack, another text editor, sometimes a third browser window, a terminal, sometimes a second terminal...at that point being able to categorize your stuff and not wade through the alt-tab hell is super super helpful, and you can basically get to the point whre it's like "O I need thing x, pound these two keys" reliably.

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2022-02-01 22:36:35

I use it mainly at work. I have QuickBooks on one Desktop, and I usually have all my other programs on another. The main benefit for me is QuickBooks can slow JAWS down while flipping between programs, so keeping QuickBooks by itself saves me time when going from say Firefox over to Notepad to take a quick note.

2022-02-01 22:39:48

It would be more than two keys though, wouldn't it? I guess that's what I'm trying to get at. You have these ten windows minimum open, right? How are you splitting them up? Do you have ten desktops? But then you have to ctrl-win-left/right through those desktops. So I assume you split them up on to fewer desktops. So let's say five. Now you have to switch to the right desktop, and then alt-tab to the right window.

Is switching desktops faster than alt-tabbing? Because yeah I admit, that can be pretty slow sometimes, and the order gets weird, sometimes if I alt-tab I feel like it goes 1, 2,3, 1, 4, stuff like that. I don't know if that's because I let up on one of the keys and it starts switching into a window or what, but the order just gets odd sometimes, so I have to alt-tab through more than once to get to the right window in the set. It's probably why I don't have bunches of windows open.

So I get that it's an organizational thing. I guess I'm just looking for a little more than "I have ten windows open, imagine alt-tabbing between those"? Yeah, that would suck. I'm trying to figure out why switching through X desktops and then alt-tabbing between Y windows is better. So you wake up in the morning. You boot Windows. Then what? Are your desktops named, so you switch to the communication desktop and open up Skype and Discord on it, or Slack, I think that's some sort of messenger thingy? Do you have the browser(s) always on the same desktop, so you never, for example, hear a new group on Spotify and open up a browser on that desktop to look up info on them, you always switch to the browser desktop?

I guess I feel like I understand most of the mechanics of virtual desktops now, although I could be wrong so feel free to toss in any info if I've missed something. You win-tab, and make a new one or rename it or whatever. However many you've made, they get saved. You switch between them with ctrl-win-left/right, and whatever you open up on one only exists on that desktop, except for things like the interfaceless Twitter clients I guess. So instead of having twenty-five windows to alt-tab through on one desktop, you have some number of windows on some number of desktops. So you switch desktops and then alt-tab between whatever's open on the one you land on.

That's the mechanical stuff, how you make them and how they work once you make them. Now I want to know how you use them day to day. Is your machine and all of those windows just running constantly, or do you have to set them up again at least occasionally? How's that work, what's it like? Once you get them set up, how are you using them? Do you have, say, Spotify on one desktop because if you need to pause it or whatever, it's faster to switch to that desktop and get to it then it is to alt-tab through things? I guess I kind of get what's going on. it still seems to be adding extra steps to me. So I'm still trying to figure out how it makes things better, practically speaking.

For me, I have something like Skype closed, well minimized to the system tray or whatever it does. When I get a message, I hit win-m, type 'sk' to get to Skype, and hit enter. Then it's open and I get to the message. I gather the suggestion is that leaving Skype and whatever else works like it open on their own desktop would be faster than doing that? But I guess that depends on how many desktops you have, so that's why I'm asking about daily practical usage, as anybody who uses them sees it, understanding that your organizational scheme might not work for me. because I want to give these a try now. But I'm still not quite seeing the advantages, practically speaking.

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2022-02-01 23:26:45

I used to use Virtual Desktops all the time, however the organisational benefits are mainly negated for me by Power Launcher and the taskbar, where you can press Win+number to quickly bring the program in that taskbar position into the foreground.

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2022-02-02 06:58:31

Anything that has to stay open that I want out of my way. I don't do the n-utils or winwizard thing, so virtual desktops work fine for that. Imagine either a few virtual machines open or maybe a terminal command that's expected to take a while, like moving stuff from an SSD to a spinning disk to make more room on the SSD. I also used them back when WSL's terminal had to stay open for the kernel to keep running.

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2022-02-02 11:18:34

This is a really useful feature. Thanks for reminding me about it, I'll have to try to think of good uses for it. Isn't there a way to rename desktops? How do you do that again? NVDA doesn't seem to read the name of the desktop when you switch focus to it, has this been reported?

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2022-02-02 19:24:09

When you hit win-tab, at least in Windows 11, and get to the desktop area, if you make a new one, select it in that area, then right click, you can rename it there.

I think there's an issue yeah, no idea if it will get fixed, but it came up on the NVDA list, which is what started me to wondering about virtual desktops again. Thanks everybody for the feedback.

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2022-02-02 19:40:02

If you use Windows app essentials, desktop  names should be reported when switching. There is a PR in progress to make this into the NVDA core itself, but it was stagnant for a while due to a corner case that was being discussed.

2022-02-02 19:56:01

@Chris, You can rename Virtual Desktops by accessing Task View, and pressing F2 on the desktop you want to rename.

If you for whatever reason wish to contact me, the best way to do so is through Discord (Minionslayer#2980). You'll get the quickest response times, and by extension, a higher priority. I also sometimes post my thoughts (for the better or worse) over on Twitter at @Minionslayer2.

2022-02-04 00:24:03

Anybody know of any alternative desktop managers for Windows 11? Well, let me be more specific, anybody know of anything recent?

I know about a couple. Dexpot, but it hasn't been updated since like 2015. VirtuaWin talks about things like Windows XP SP2. Dexpot sounds like it would do at least one of the things I want, let me put specific programs on specific desktops, e.g. make a games desktop and move all of the games so they live on that, not on every virtual desktop I create.

The other big thing that would be nice is if I have a program on a desktop, and it starts when Windows boots, it would open on that desktop. Right now I have a Communication desktop, where I have Skype and Discord open. But of course, every time I boot, I have to move those apps to that desktop. It's not a huge deal with just two apps, but if I do more, well, it gets to be an issue.

So I thought, hey, surely somebody's made alternatives to Windows own virtual desktops. They have ,but the ones I know about are old, and I'm having trouble finding the right thing to google to see if there are any others. May as well see if anybody else knows something.

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